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Post by Jingshen on Dec 25, 2004 9:21:34 GMT -5
Yeh, but here some tae kwon do sparring can be compared to a game of tag...first person to strike gets a point..first to three points wins people come to show off here too much with the high kicks - LOL coming from a wushu player...=)=) i have been teaching for years lol...children to adults depending...i help other coaches in the class or take them when they cannot, i am yet to start my own class - this january =) in our club noone under the age of eighteen may where a black belt and i thoroughly agree with this..no matter the skill some people could pick up one of those ten year old black belts from other styles and hurl them into the wall..or just run at them and flatten them..they do not have the strength.. At our grandmasters club in Kuala Lumpur they must practise the first routine for three years!! and no others!..:s we are lucky lol, also very lucky in the fact tht my father is one of the main coaches...no break for me at home though =)
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simon
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Post by simon on Dec 29, 2004 12:30:47 GMT -5
first to three points wins? i dont understand that. ok if you are three points ahead - you will most propably win. but if you just kick along you receive as many hits as you make. And if its 3 - 2 the outcome is open.
I didnt want to say that 6 years is not enough to become a 2nd dan. I just meant that ist quick. But you propably trained very hard in that time.
As for the language: i didnt understand a word of what Kyosanim TK17 said in the end of his last post. Was that Corean? I just know the commands of my Dojang.
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Post by Spike on Dec 29, 2004 13:14:18 GMT -5
6 years in some cases is way to quick. Just depends on the style and the sensai. My sensai (karate) would never advance somebody that quickly even if they were the best martial artist on the planet. Everyone has their gradings spaced an equal distance apart and if you fail you have to wait until the next oppurtunity. I don't really agree with that and think that if your ability merits it then you should advance at the pace that best suits you. He would probably argue that its experiance not ability that makes a martial artist, but each to their own.
You have had some good oppurtunities in terms of training. I have trained people of all ages also but enjoy teaching youngsters the most. Must of been nice to see your student go from white to black. I completely agree that the best thing about it is viewing the art from so many different perspectives, really opens your eyes.
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Post by EmuMcManson on Dec 30, 2004 10:49:03 GMT -5
Where I take Tai Chi, our sensei (we just call him sir lol) just tests us when he thinks we're ready to be tested. I advanced from apprentice to disciple in three months, but it took me almost a year to advance from disciple to deputy master. We dont have belts either, we just have titles and stripes, sort of like the military.
We're not all that traditional, but it's fun nonetheless.
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Post by Jingshen on Dec 30, 2004 11:31:29 GMT -5
Maybe i wrote it wrong...it is the first person to make contact, then the referee stops it and the athletes come back to the middle and then you start again..first to three...not fun...
In our wushu class we have no grades, we have a boy captain and a girl captain and aprt from that your own performance in competition shows your abilty...
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TK17
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Post by TK17 on Dec 30, 2004 12:29:49 GMT -5
I was trying to say "Thank you, friend," but the way Master Lee spells Korean words in English may not be the way anyone else does Spike's absolutely right about six years being too quick in a universal sense. Just because I've mastered the specific techniques of the particular bits of Tae Kwon Do that are studied at my academy in six years doesn't mean that I'm anywhere near the whole martial artist I can one day be, or that I'm anywhere near a second degree black belt who took a dozen years to get there. I sometimes regret that I didn't wake up to the benefits of taking it slowly until I was halfway through this fast-moving system, but now I use it as motivation ... I try to live up to the standard set by people who took a dozen years to get there, try to focus on my shortcomings and dedicate myself to harder training so that I can build experience. Final clarification: Point sparring ... ref says "Fight!" and people fake and dodge and strike until someone gets hit. Ref says "Stop!" and breaks it up; fighters return to the original position. Repeat. First person to three (or sometimes five) wins. Very not like a real fight timing wise, but often you're more free to punch to the head, sweep, etc. Olympic sparring ... ref says "Fight!" and people fake and dodge and strike and block for a minute, or three minutes. Ref says "Stop!" and breaks it up. It's over. Whoever made more hits wins. Very like a real fight in timing, but you're usually limited to kicks/punches to the body and kicks to the head, so it's less ... wholesome ... as far as fighting style goes.
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Post by Jingshen on Dec 30, 2004 12:38:45 GMT -5
Yeh we are closer in practise to the second .. "free sparring"...
Although it may be more varied i do not approve of the point sparring...
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Post by Spike on Dec 30, 2004 12:41:28 GMT -5
Totally, it is not a problem really speaking. The speed you advance is only an issue for those seeking some kind of reward. When the reward is simply to become a great martial artist and you want to continue for as long as you can, improving and learning new things it doesn't matter what belt you acheive. I was just pointing out how my sensai looks at things. Truth is i think the belt system is stupid and every other art i have practiced i deliberatly stayed away from gradings etc. When i was about 5 i was desperate to get higher and higher in terms of ranking but when i realised there is no end, that i can continue to improve far past simply reaching black belt i completely lost interest. It doesn't matter what belt you are and how you got their its about how much a part of the art you are and its pretty clear that you are as involved as you can be. Looking at how much you enjoy the art and enjoy passing your knowledge onto others it doesn't matter how quickly you attained it you obviously deserve your rank.
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simon
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Post by simon on Dec 31, 2004 10:45:36 GMT -5
so thats point sparring... for me the main disadvantage is that you dont need fighting endurance to win such a match.
i think the belt system may make sense within a dojang, so people will listen to higher graduated ones (else people tend to listen to the most talkative). But as Spike sais they dont make much sense when it comes to comparing people from different dojangs. but that way on the other hand tk17 doesnt need to explain how many people he has tought and what tests he did, but he can just say - im 2nd dan - and people got an idea about his abilities.
Is it true that the whole colorful belt stuff started in the 20th century? Somebody well informed?
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Post by Jingshen on Dec 31, 2004 11:57:26 GMT -5
yes that is true, the coloured belt system has only been around for about 100 years- almost double tkd's existence.
"The Japanese used to call us, the "Europeans of Many Colours" this was due to the various coloured belts, or 'grading colours' we had tied around our waists, thereby 'showing' others within the school and outsiders our 'ranking/knowledge'. "
Though i daresay, even though there were no belts each school had a ranking system. However, there was no need for other schools to know the rank of a student from another.
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simon
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Post by simon on Jan 1, 2005 17:40:49 GMT -5
Interesting, thanks for the info Jingshen. One thing I have to say: Tae Kwon Do is young (like Aikido or Judo), but korean Martial Arts is ancient. Some estimate it older than 2000 years. Im shure you didnt want to put Tae Kwon Do down, but i just had to put this under your post.
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TK17
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Post by TK17 on Jan 1, 2005 22:27:17 GMT -5
when i realised there is no end, that i can continue to improve far past simply reaching black belt i completely lost interest. This one's right up my alley ... I didn't start to truly grow until I hit that somewhat-too-early black belt, and the reason it happened then was because THERE WERE NO MORE TESTS FOR ME! With no more ranks to focus on attaining, I was left without a goal, and that's when I started making them for myself. It opened me up as a martial artist, and I started to grow in the way that the martial arts are meant to teach one to grow. In fact, the standard time waiting between 1st dan and 2nd dan at Lee Brothers is one year ... I waited two and a half, not because I wanted to make some point about rushing, but because I had other things to work on besides fulfilling the specific requirements of a rank test ... I didn't get around to testing until I had the spare time. Once I'd doubled my endurance, cleaned up my basic kicks, sharpened my form, learned backflip, and toughened my fists, then I decided I could take a break long enough to pass the test. Truth is i think the belt system is stupid and every other art i have practiced i deliberatly stayed away from gradings etc. Let the skill and spirit show through ... they're all that really matter ... Lastly (and this doesn't belong on the TKD thread per se, but I don't think it merits a whole new thread by itself), here's a link a Jiu Jitsu buddy gave me, with regards to the Japanese martial arts ... it's really cool, I think. www.geocities.com/HotSprings/6065/-TK17
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Post by Spike on Jan 2, 2005 14:10:08 GMT -5
I know exactly what you mean and i feel to many people focus on how others perceive their level. To many people want to become a black belt, not a martial artist.
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Post by Jingshen on Jan 2, 2005 17:45:28 GMT -5
i was not downing tkd for its time...just using it to show tht although belts have been around for only a 100 years - in the martial arts world that can be considered a long time..
Also, traditional wushu has acquired a supposed 5000 years of history...but look how much it has changed - it is not the same wushu as then...time is no gauge on the effectiveness of the art - take Jeet Kune Do for example..
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TK17
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Post by TK17 on Jan 3, 2005 0:31:56 GMT -5
Curious about terminology ...
For those of you who've taken TKD (or any other art, I suppose), how many of these things do you recognize by these names, how many have you not done, and what others have you done that I haven't? Do you know any modifications or different outlooks that seem easier (as a teacher, I'm always looking for new tools)?
Front kick - hips straight ahead, foot extended with toes back, hitting with the ball of the foot.
Side kick - hips sideways, heel extended, foot sideways, hitting with the heel or the outer edge of the foot
Roundhouse kick - hips sideways, foot extended, hitting with the top of the foot and the bottom of the ankle
Drop kick - either inside to out, outside to in, or straight ahead, leg swinging up and striking down, with the foot extended and impacting on the ball, or with the foot pulled back and impacting on the Achilles tendon
Hop-step kick - either front, side, round, or drop; skipping forward with the back knee up and then extending the kick with the front leg
Back kick - kicking out behind you with your hips away from the target, striking with the heel while looking over your shoulder, foot may be sideways or toes down. Also turning (pivoting in place to hit a target in front) or spinning (stepping in and then pivoting)
Spinning hook kick - starting from a fighting stance, feet shoulder width apart along both axes, twisting towards the back leg and raising it as you come around 360 degrees, striking a target that was in front of you with the Achilles tendon or the bottom of the foot that was originally in the back
Tornado roundhouse kick - stepping in, spinning around 360 with the (original) front foot raised, and kicking with the (original) back foot using a roundhouse. Usually striking the target while in midair; landing may be on the kicking foot or on the non-kicking foot (this is easier)
Flying side kick - running in towards a target, taking the final step with the non-kicking leg and pushing off into the air; moving either far forward or high up, side kicking the target with the non-kicking leg chambered up close to the body, and landing on the non-kicking leg
Scissors kick - running in towards a target, jumping into the air with your chest to one side and your body moving to be parallel with the ground; striking the target with the top foot in front moving backwards and the bottom foot in back moving forwards so that your feet cross in the middle like scissors and drop the target to the ground.
There are more kicks for me, but they're generally variations or combos of these building blocks.
-TK17
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